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Posted by5 months ago
As of typing this, I am the fifth highest ranked Tira in SoulCalibur 6 on PC. I should be the second highest if I take my current points and points when I had a rank reset, but I digress. I have only played Tira since SoulCalibur 6 was released as my competitive character, and have been playing since the original soulblade. SoulCalibur is a franchise I hold genuinly dear and close to my heart, and the only thing I want for this franchise is for it to continue, and to be healthy. All my views on balancing are as unbiased as I can humanly be, regardless of my frustrations with some characters personally (Except Azwel. Fuck you Azwel.) I am not normally the type to make a big post about balancing, or even look at frame data. I prefer to just play and learn through experience.
After having Tira as my main, or secondary in every SoulCalibur since 3, I have grown very tired of her always being considered one of the worst characters with no true adjustments. Tira's moveset has been drastically altered in every SoulCalibur, with the exception of 5 to 6 where the alteration is just slightly above Minimal. With every alteration, this character is always regarded as poor, or unplayable, and always has multiple problems shared throughout every single iteration of her movesets.
What this post aims to do, is to point out Tira's primarily moveset problems that need to be addressed, and why they need to be addressed as part 1. (These problems have been done in order from all of Jollys moves first to all of Gloomys.) Part 2 will be discussing problems this character has had since her inception throughout every game that needs to be addressed. (this section is not done in any specific order.) Finally part 3 will be addressing how to fix these problems, or if they should be fixed in the first place. There is a lot more I feel I could add to this, but would ultimately end up making this character near flawless, which is not the aim of this post. This post aims to find a way to bring this Character towards low B tier, or high C tier in terms of viability.
Any feed back or questions will be greately appreciated, as I am always open to discuss this.
-Flageolette Fin - 66 A is -20 on guard (Launcher Punishable) -6 ON HIT and -6 on COUNTERHIT. Why would I ever throw just one A out of 66 instead of the second hit? Theres no reason to even give me the option.
Flageolette Fin - 66 A A: -20 on guard (Launcher Punishable). Hit and Counter hit hard knock down the opponent and allow Jolly to resume pressure. But Flageolette Fin is Jolly Tiras primary approaching tool. Why is an approaching tool Launcher punishable?
Flageolette Vibrato:66AAA: -2 on guard. Hard knockdown on Hit and counter hit....But the third hit of this move is blockable, even AFTER being hit by the first 2! Attack Counter, or run counter, it is still blockable! The only benifit of the SoulCharged 66AA is that you dont get launchered!
Agrement Double Claw: Jolly 6BB. -2 on guard.
Is a hard knockdown on second hit.. but Jolly jumps too far away for her to actually follow up on it. The second hit CAN be a mixup, by jumping over a downed opponent, and then hitting them as they recover, while creating distance.. but they have to be directly behind Tira, and the hitbox is very strict.
Second hit can be GI'd with no risk in timing at all. Not performing the second hit will be too slow to punish GI. Second hit can be RE'd after first hit is blocked. It can also be sidestepped. Both attacks are verticles.
The attack pattern of this move is Mid -> Mid, which is a big problem due too...
Shredding Beak: Jolly 6BK. -12 on block. Hard knockdown. Hits as a Vertical -> Horizontal.
Move has more range than Agrement double claw. This move also moves Tira much further. Unlike Agrement Double Claw, Tira can follow up the hard knock down with multiple moves(uncomfirmable.), or a low kick for a guaranteed poke, but..
Shredding Beak hits Mid->High.Agrement Double Claw hits Mid->Mid.
This means that the opponent can safely hold standing block with no risk of being pressured, even though this move should be a mixup, where Agrement Double Claw SHOULD hit Mid->Low, as it is a slower move, but would give Tira mixup pressure.
As it is now, both of these moves have no pressure on the opponent due to the fact that they don't have to adapt to anything. The only possible 'mixup' is if you throw Shredding Beak to catch a sidestep, but the opponent has no reason to ever go for a sidestep unless they get greedy...which a good player wont.
Tira has a Lethal hit that can only be used if she loses a round, and then spawn hits you. I'm not adding more to this. It speaks for itself.
Jolly Tira's 4 B(not putting frame data or anything, because the timing itself isnt the problem.) has 3 hits that can come from it, with the mixup option of 2 moves. From 4B, Tira can hit B -> B to perform 3 vertical strikes that end with a 'command grab'Tira can hit 4B B -> K to perform a low trip. and the second hit is interchangeable with a Horizontal (A) that hits twice before going to the final input. Sounds good right? The third hit, regardless of which option you choose, is NEVER confirmable. The opponent can side step no matter what you do.
Basilisk's Lament: Gloomy 6B. -4 on block. +6 on hit Hard Knockdown on counter. Tira has a Lethal hit that can only be used if she loses a round, and then spawn hits you. I'm not adding more to the lethal hit topic. Namco youre a joke.
6B by itself isn't that bad besides the fact it's hitbox seems to be overly thin. I can't complain about this move indivdually..(but we both know I wouldnt list it if It was perfect.) BUT...
Basilisk's Lament actually has a string that is not listed in the move set. As a result, there is no actual name for it. For the sake of this post, I will be calling this input 'Basilisk is sad.'
Basilisk's Lament (6B) can actually combo with
Mineras Lament. (Gloomy 6 A: -6 on block +2 on hit Stun on Run counter or move counter.)
After using Basilisk's Lament, Gloomy can actually string Minera's Lament into the move, in 1 fluent animation and movement, to perform Basilisk Is Sad. (Almost like the string was forgotten to be put into the movelist..)
How ever, this move is only confirmable on counter hit... if Minera's Lament (6A) hits an opponent who is just standing, Basilisk's Lament, can be blocked still.. just like Jollys 66AAA in soulcharge..
The soul charged version of this move: Minerva's Symphony (+4 on block. Hard knock down on hit or counter.)
![Tira frame data system Tira frame data system](/uploads/1/2/5/5/125557072/781900860.png)
actually LISTS 'Basilisk is sad' (6A 6B in Gloomy) as the initial part of this move. (Once again, almost like the base version was forgotten about..unless my copy of the game is somehow the only bugged version in the world for that.)
Minerva's Symphony is 6A -> B -> B... and has THE SAME PROBLEM as the normal version of the move. If the initial attack hits (6A) it is uncomfirmable unless it is a Counter hit. For the sake of time, let me just clear this instantly. Every single move in Gloomy that is a multi part attack, is counter hit reliant with the acception of 3A -> A /3A -> A+B, and 3B / 3BB (depending on Soulcharge.) which forces you to throw 6 A+B (unblockable), and then cancel it into an attack in hopes of catching a run counter.
There is no satisfaction in this option.
Gloomy Tira's 4 B -> B-> B (Oratorio Halcyon) has the following frame data.
4B: -12 on block. +2 on hit and counter hit.
4B -> B (just) -14 on block. Knock down on hit or counter hit. Has a chance to change Gloomy into Jolly if Just frame is missed.
4B ->B ->B (just) -18 on block. Launcher on hit or counter hit. Missing Just Frame timing has a chance of turning Gloomy into Jolly.
This move comes out so slowly inbetween strikes, a large chunk of the cast can CE during pressure of the move. You can RE during the block string
You can GI safely during block string
You can sidestep every single hit, regardless of blocking 1, or 2 of the 3 strikes.
Missing the Just frames for some reason doesnt only punish you with a combo drop and giving the enemy the ability to begin a string on you, but can also force you out of Gloomy. Theres no reason for a double negative on an Unsafe move.
Random headaches after using 4K in Gloomy.
Random headaches after using BK in Jolly and Gloomy.
Random mood changes during combo strings that are forced to be dropped due to no synergy between the 2 moods.
No way to change moods 'safely'besides taunting (or spamming brave edge in SoulCal 5.)
Jolly is hilariously unsafe
![Tira Frame Data Tira Frame Data](http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/storage/sc6tiradlcrevealimgtrailer.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1534839675341)
Gloomy is hilariously safe with a lack of horizontals (why is the mood designed to be reckless and violent the safe one???)
Gloomy LITERALLY can not make comebacks, and due to not having a safe way to mood change,low health on Gloomy is normally an auto loss.
Hilariously bad strings that are never confirmable.
Hilariously reliant on counter hit.
Taunting isnt even 100% guranteed for a mood change, which means you can sometimes spend 3 seconds of taunting for no reason.
Jolly 66AA: This move should 100% be punishable on guard, but not launcher punishable. Unless we suddenly get a rework and we are given some moves from her SoulCalibur 3 iteration, this is her ONLY approaching tool and should be punishable by a quick poke at best.
Jolly (SoulCharge) 66AAA : Do I even need to point this out? If the first two attacks land, why wouldnt the third? I dont get how this made it through testing. It's an attack string. You land 2 hits, youre supposed to string to the third. Hello?
Jolly 6BB: Just make the second attack hit low so Jolly can actually perform a real Mixup.
Jolly 6BK:This move is fine. Its cousin 6BB just needs the low change.
Get rid of our 'Amazing' lethal hit that requires us to LOSE first.
Jolly 4BBB/4BAB/4BBK/4BAK: Make it so if I hit the first two attacks, Tira can at the VERY LEAST guard pressure, and not STILL get sidestepped and then launchered.
Gloomy 6AB : If the first attack hits, the second should be confirmed. Otherwise change this moves timing so it no longer acts as a string. All this does as is, is bait Tira into being punished unless its a run counter.
Gloomy (soulcharged) 6ABB : Give this the same fix as the previous move.
Gloomy 4 BBB (Just frame) should actually have payout to landing all the inputs, and atleast grant some form of block pressure. This move also shouldnt punish you with being open to an attack for miss timing WHILE putting you into Jolly. Theres no reason to be punished twice for this.
Finally fixing every re-occuring problem since SoulCalibur 3 so this character doesnt make you want to bash your skull in due to RNG.
Also just for clarification, my name on SoulCalibur is 8wayfunz. This is an old account and I forgot the name I had on this.
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